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ter1




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Re:11

Quote:
引用第19楼利尔123于2007-07-22 12:27发表的 11 :
换那么大的电容会不会对高频造成不好的影响啊?


那是供电用的cap,不是在analog output circuit。

====================

I finally finished up my mod today by replacing the decoupling caps with 22uF/16V Blackgates.

Final pic with all mods in place (for left+right anyway, surround channels maybe some other time.. i dont use them for anything important)



As you can see the BGs are quite a bit bigger then the jamicons they replace, which is why they cant stand up straight but its fine this way.

And for those who hadnt read yet: soldering on this card is a bit crappy cause it spreads heat so well, i had to put my soldering stations temp potmeter in the redzone to get those buggers off properly. I would definately advise against using a 25w iron for the caps (the SOIC is the easiest part of this mod imo)

Im very happy with the result but i already noted that a few posts back.. Happy modding!
顶端 Posted: 2007-07-22 13:24 | 20 楼
BnB

头衔:>Tom McRae< 我的Soulmate >Tom McRae< 我的Soulmate

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~~

BG,又见BG
见到就顶!    
顶端 Posted: 2007-07-22 16:30 | 21 楼
a7v266e

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Re:打摩

Quote:
引用第15楼wf007于2007-07-22 08:13发表的 打摩 :
指望通过换几个电容和运放就能明显提高声卡音质的做法是不切实际的自欺欺人。


偶认同。。。
顶端 Posted: 2007-07-22 16:34 | 22 楼
a7v266e

头衔:真正河蟹的社会无需提河蟹 真正河蟹的社会无需提河蟹

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Re:Re:

Quote:

Re:
其中shielding可以提高下面这么多!!

I try tune X-Fi Digital Audio (Sound Blaster X-Fi XtremeMusic)

RESULTS(Optical loop-back)
Noise level, dB (A): -104.8 >>> -147.8
Dynamic range, dB (A): 104.0 >>> 133.1
THD, %: 0.0002 >>> 0.0000
IMD + Noise, %: 0.0027 >>> 0.0003
Stereo crosstalk, dB: -103.3 >>> -145.7
---------------------------------------------------------
这个绝对是胡扯,多半是把RMAA从外录变成内录的结果。
顶端 Posted: 2007-07-22 16:35 | 23 楼
a7v266e

头衔:真正河蟹的社会无需提河蟹 真正河蟹的社会无需提河蟹

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Re:11

Quote:
引用第19楼利尔123于2007-07-22 12:27发表的 11 :
换那么大的电容会不会对高频造成不好的影响啊?



你被国外的DIYER欺骗了,这个大电容只是对数字电路部分起作用,对模拟部分根本没有任何作用,所以根本不存在什么对高频造成影响之说;所实在,换大电容后是否会有效果值得商榷。。。
顶端 Posted: 2007-07-22 16:37 | 24 楼
a7v266e

头衔:真正河蟹的社会无需提河蟹 真正河蟹的社会无需提河蟹

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仿照着肯定是SB~

那个加防静电套就可以隔电磁辐射的说法完全就是胡扯瞎扯~

假如某个论坛的高手说这个打磨方法很有道理,那么他也是伪科学的倡导者,呵呵~~~
顶端 Posted: 2007-07-22 16:41 | 25 楼
a7v266e

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over~

对这个帖子的鉴定完毕,不再看,也不再回复。
唯一收获是获知了lm4562(可惜其输出电流不如原配的4556,直推低阻耳机的效果恐怕还不如4556)!
顶端 Posted: 2007-07-22 16:44 | 26 楼
ter1




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Re:动手打磨X-Fi任何版本,都可以让低端的extreme music模拟输出超过外置DAC01!!

some responses from modders on head-fi...
==========================
well,for those who dont want to try or buy the ers sheet,there is a another very simple way to shield your card.
the alternative is to use a "static bag",yes static bag which come with your pc hardware.bcause some of these bags are also made to shield the hardware from emi and rfi.
i am using static bag instead of ers sheet(overpriced).
when i aplied the staticbag to my card,the sonic improvment was significant
the trebels was more clear,tranparent and detailed.
the bass,i couldnt believe what i was hearing,i was able to hear very low frecuency bass notes in the music,bass was more clear and with more depth ,not like the muddy bass of the stock xfi.
guys you should try it,your are not going to loose anything and its just take 5 minuts.

========================

Just finished with the mod, improvement was day and night! no more harsh highs and distorted instruments!!

Im now able to listen to recordings I used to refuse to listen to , the sound stage got wider and the bass is much accurate with a RICH CLEAR treble.

I gotta admit I was doubting how much of a major improvement it would do but it really did make a huge diffrence. Thanks to cotdt and the head-fi members for bringing up important questions that hepled me alot in the modding process.

===========================

Racked up about 100hrs on my 1000uf Blackgate (non-polar) and since putting it in there's definately an improvment.

Bass seems a bit deeper, more rounded and has a nice kick/punch to it. Vocal range seems to be tighter now as well.

This is running through an EL34 PP amp and integrated tube preamp through into my mishmash of drivers.


Can't wait to change the opamp but gonna leave the blackgate burn in for another week or two just to see if it develops any problems like a few have mentioned.

============================

Why not use the AD8620 for the opamps ? It's meant to work with low voltages(like the +/- 2.5V supplied to them from the card) and it has a max current output of 60mA with much better slew rate,THD,distortion,lower crosstalk.
I have replaced the stocks with AD8620s for your information.

reply: i have tried the AD8620 and AD8066, but the LM4562 sounds better to my ears. the AD8620 is thin and bright.

reply: Yes,the AD8620s do sound thin than the stock JM4556 but they have an excellent soundstage and instrument separation,IMO.The vocals were the cynosure with the JM4556 with a tubby base.Not so with the ADs.

Maybe I'll try the LM4562s

=============================

Did caps mod today. Shorted those 20uf front channel caps and replaced 220uf Jamicon with 1200uf 16V from one broken Abit nf7 mobo (im sure it aint the best but since it has greates capacity it shoult be better?). It's hard to get good cap where i live
Opamp has been replaced some months ago. Went for ad8620 becouse had nothing else good available.
About the improvment...
When i changed opamp there was a clear improvment but after caps mod - well maybe there is something but definetly nothing big.

=================================
I think quality of the capacitor is more helpful for the sound then its capacity, but you can't do much worse then the jamicon so it shouldn't hurt.

About the coupling caps I wonder if I'm the only one where shorting them made the sound worse instead of better. Without coupling caps I get distortion when I drive XFi volume higher than 50-60%. With coupling caps theres no distortion at any volume.
I'm now using 2 coupling caps instead of 4, 10uF each, seems to be enough. Notice they are parallel not serial so to use 2 the remaining 2 arent shorted but taken out the circuit.
Also I tried some anti static/interference 'paper' and it was more noticable then I expected, made the sound a little more laid back and 'rounded'.


==========================
Just have to say ammazing guides guys, very well described and intuitive.


Thanks for posting these great guides.

==================

Capacitor leads should always be kept as short as possible. and shouldnt be as long as shown in the original mod.

======================

Originally Posted by robbie 
Hello.

I've done the opamp modification, but it did not resolve the problem I'm having with my x-fi, -it's distorting at high volume when delivering to an amplifier.

Can this be the powercap not delivering enough power ? It's fine at lower volumes, but when raised above 60% everything goes to hell, and there is noticable crackle particularly heard in bright parts of tracks.

Anyone else have this problem with their x-fi ?

If you've had the problem since before the mod, then it is most likely your amp. What amp are you using? Are you using headphones or speakers? More information would help.

BTW, you should use the X-Fi at 100% volume at all times. Volume attenuation should be done on the preamp/amp via a volume pot. Doing volume control on the computer decreases sound quality.
__________________

======================

I found the bugger !

This was the fault : crackling/distorted sound, particulary high-freq. sounds like vocals on "Feist - The Water".

This is when the error occured : when connected to an amplifier for speakers, regardless of what kind, -I have two and they are fault-free.

The sound was OK on the amp when master set to below 60%, and the sound was always OK when listening with headphones (DT660).

I've always used the headphones through the front socket on my chassis. The wire going from the x-fi to the front port of the chassis is the bugger. Bin it, now.

For thoose of you who did not get any improvements in the bass department, it's probably due to a poor solder. I soldered the chip with no solder (just used what was left on the card), and that wasn't enough, so I heard no bass improvements due to one of the connectors not beeing soldered good enough. Just pressing on the opamp resolved the problem, but I'll have to add more solder when I get hold of it.

Oh, and no I have not shorted the other caps, I've only changed the opamp. I didn't understand what shorting thoose caps was good for, but I think it was somthing about delivering enough power to the opamp or making the current out of the opamp stable ? I need stable output, as I have a sensitive and to me, expensive amplifier, for my speakers.

This is true, cheap bliss !

==========================
顶端 Posted: 2007-07-22 19:26 | 27 楼
ter1




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Re:动手打磨X-Fi任何版本,都可以让低端

Yeah L/R differences probably have to do with a faulty connection, give each solder point a quick once-over, also for the caps.
If all those are checked it might be some burn-in thing though personally even though burnin some caps gives weird issues, I did not get any L/R problems. And I got the most notorious caps: nonpolar blackgates, 5 of them. Temporary problems included extreme initial distortion and even the card failing to start up initially with new caps.

Eventually my XFi looks like this now:


Covered in anti interference plastic.
All the red ones are BG nonpolars. A bunch of spares in the baggie on the background, but Im sure I'll find a use for them soon enough

Very happy with how it turned out despite having some problems along the way.

==========================

Anyway you look at it. Capacitors used to block DC will degrade the sound quality. It doesn't matter what quality of cap you use it will still hurt your sound quality. Another reason bypassing these caps is no big deal is because most inputs will have their own set of caps on the inputs especially with higher quality gear. They are redundant on the card and are there as a just in case measure. The LM4562's help with any DC voltage on the outputs aswell. If you don't want to bypass them then the only other option is to use better caps. They all degrade your signal when used in this manner.

======================

If you guys are driving headphones directly, the AD9632 would be a better choice than the LM4562.

===========================
replacing the caps of psu really improve the sound quality.
i just replaced 12v,5v,3.3v lines caps and the sound was better then i expected,
first of all the music sounded more clean and soft,it sounded more opend with more sence of space,better positioning of instruments and bass is fuller and extended.

====================

not quiet sure what you mean by that.
The improvement of changing opamp and capacitor are pretty well known through out the DIY forum.
Some people report that they felt there is a difference by shielding the card with anti static bag which cost... nothing.

=====================

Originally Posted by ]|[ GorE 
I don't doubt the differences caused by the change of opamp and the ERS paper,but the difference by adding the huge valued capacitor (part of the digital and analog stage).2200 uF cap, ?? IF you read the voltage regulator datasheets as I have,you will find no use for anything more than 480uF or so..Also,lookup waht happens to the voltage noise when caps with different capacitance are connected at the output of the regulators.(google it ).

You're right, it's not the size of the capacitor that matters. But the debate is whether or not using high quality caps as power filter effects the sound. I thought it did, but the only way to prove it is to do a blind A/B test. There are, however, instances of hundreds of people who change out their power capacitors for better ones and noted an improvement in the sound (ie. better clarity). It's hard to argue that hundreds (if not thousands) of people are all under the influence of placebo. Is it really so hard to beleive? The power supply is in the audio signal path and are not even close to acting like ideal capacitors. The specs of various capacitors are very different and these differences are directly measureable.

================

It's a general known fact that a cleaner and more stable DC current in audio systems is of great benefit.

Perhaps GorE made the power cap replacement and didn't notice any difference due to A) his equipment setup or B) difference between the way people work!

I've definately noticed a difference, forum members have noted a difference and people visiting me have noticed a difference and this is just from replacing the power cap.

GorE - instead of just stating that everyone else is subjected to a placebo effect either prove that there is no audible benefit or please just don't comment on it.

Also...you waffle on about 0.1uF caps left out by Creative...your the only source I've seen mention this (granted I haven't looked at any technical documents in regard to any workings of the card) so why not propose the mod, reasons for it and add a little tutorial about how and what to change.

(can't even see that you have done this mod yourself let alone mention any noticeable benefit).

====================

Your doubts deceive you. The power supply is always part of the signal path if you think about it. Please stop crapping my thread. You have not even tried these mods because you do not even have an X-Fi. I'll be happy to discuss electronics with you, but you seem to have some very strong beliefs. You would get a lot more respect around here if you actually made the effort to back up your arguments.

你的怀疑欺骗了你。电源总是信号路径的一部分。请不要发一些无用的回复。你并没有亲自动手试过,你甚至都没有一个X-Fi卡。我很乐意能和你一起讨论电子知识,但是看起来你有些想法根深蒂固。如果你能用实例支持你的想法,你就可以得到论坛上人们更多的尊重。


==========================

"cotdt" you should order some samples of ad8599 to hear your self the diference
compared to lm4562,lm4562 sound ok to me,but ad8599 have better soundstage
and there is much more life and involvement with AD8599.
顶端 Posted: 2007-07-22 19:47 | 28 楼
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Re:动手打磨X-Fi任何版本,都可以让低端的

大爷!
好多ENLA的补品!
顶端 Posted: 2007-07-22 19:56 | 29 楼
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Re:动手打磨X-Fi任何版本

Quote:
你的怀疑欺骗了你。电源总是信号路径的一部分。请不要发一些无用的回复。你并没有亲自动手试过,你甚至都没有一个X-Fi卡。我很乐意能和你一起讨论电子知识,但是看起来你有些想法根深蒂固。如果你能用实例支持你的想法,你就可以得到论坛上人们更多的尊重。



顶端 Posted: 2007-07-22 20:37 | 30 楼
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00

Black Gate FK做电源,效果绝对很明显,谁用谁知道
顶端 Posted: 2007-07-22 21:00 | 31 楼
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.

把打磨过的卡送给我听一下就知道有否效果了
顶端 Posted: 2007-07-22 21:11 | 32 楼
ter1




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Re:动手打磨X-Fi任何版本,都可以让低端的extreme

Originally Posted by ]|[ GorE 
Eager for the Audio Precision results.

Bah today I tried everything I could think of to get the Digital-In on my X-Fi to work but for some reason it doesn't (I enabled the Digital I/O, and un-muted Digital In in the mixer...looks like there's nothing else I can choose). I read somewhere that the X-Fi Digital In needed +5V digital signals to drive it, so I even hooked up the AP's SPDIF signal to a buffer so it was boosted from 2.5V to 5V...no luck. I was really hoping to be able to drive the X-Fi with the AP so I can make sweeps from 20Hz to 20kHz and produce pretty graphs for everyone to see

So far, the measurements I made with the AP and a software test tone generator were some THD+N numbers at a few frequencies and a few different volume settings. I also made some FFT plots.

I don't remember all the exact details now but in case some of you are curious, here are some numbers I remember off the top of my head:

X-Fi ExtremeGamer Fatality Before Mod (All effects off, Wave Volume 100%)
1) Entertainment Mode, Lineout @ 1.35V (master vol 85%): THD+N @ 1kHz: -96dB
2) Entertainment Mode, Lineout @ 2.2V (master vol 100%): THD+N @ 1kHz: -94dB
3) Entertainment Mode, Digital Out (master vol @ 85%): THD+N @ 1kHz: -101dB
4) Entertainment Mode, Digital Out (master vol @ 100%): THD+N @ 1kHz: -103dB

* I took the Digital Out numbers just to get a reasonable reference as to what the best result may be without all the analog output circuitry. Looks like even with the lowest distortion opamps and ultra-low noise resistors, the output will hit a wall at around -103dB.

This is just my first round of tests as I get things set up properly. The next time I measure the card I may actually use a realistic headphone load too (the numbers above were taken @ 100K I think set from within the AP). I'll get some more numbers after I change the opamps. However, if anyone knows how to get the Digital In to work on the X-Fi, or if there are suggestions to improve testing, let me know!!!

===============

Originally Posted by cotdt 
Can you measure the transient intermodulation distortion? The LM4562 is reputed to have much better results than the jelly bean opamps (like the one on the stock X-Fi). As far as THD, all opamps will measure pretty much the same, which is to say extremely good.

I'm having some problems measuring TIM. I saw some standard IMD and TIM test signals and from the AP software, but without digital-in working on my X-Fi I don't really have a good way to test it. I don't want to use Analog-In on the X-Fi because from what I've measured, it degrades distortion/noise performance by around 6dB (which is a lot when I'm measuring really low level distortions) Also, I've never actually run a TIM test before, so if there are some standards for testing TIM, I'm all ears (or eyes since I can't hear you speak).

Regarding the THD+N performance of opamps, I think at their best settings they're pretty comparable, but depending on the supply rails, output level and load, things change quickly. If you look at the THD curves of the 4556A versus the LM4562 from their datasheets, they're actually quite different.

====================

Originally Posted by Pm@c 
So I love this mod now. I did the anti static bag mod, and it sounded horrible. I started reading how people didnt like it so I took it out and now the sound is wonderful. ALOT NICER. I love it. Absolutely love it.

Yeah...anti static bug is not a good idea

============

WOW! Now understand that I really don't have alot to compare to, as my old setup was no match for my new one, (<-- still in need of a pimeta, PLEASE COME BACK SOON MISTERX!!!) but all I can say is WOW! This new setup rocks! I can't wait to get an amp and this thing truly kick some butt! Thank you so much to Soloz2 and cotdt for thier help and for everyone in the forums. DO THIS MOD, you will be pleased in the end!

=================
Guys im going to jump on the bandwagon here and mod my xfi xtreme music.

I have 3 of the op-amps en-route from NS, I am still up in the air about changing out the power cap or not.

If I do Im looking at probably a

470Uf 16v FK Black Gate (polarized)

or a

470Uf 16v N Black Gate (non polarized)

Im still trying to determin the effects of a larger cap and if it lead to any of the problems I read about on page 25 of this thread, also the effects of polar vs non-polar.

I have like 8 more pages to read before I have read the whole thread but I wanted to post this up in the mean time.

I am concerned with this:


Quote:
Ok, I've looked at the data.

Input voltage is matched, pins are matched, output voltage is almost matched (LM4562 a little higher), LM4562 itself uses a little more power (few mA).
On the plus side:
LM4562 has 20V/us slew rate vs 3V/us of the old opamp. Distortion, noise rejection, etc.: it's all better. BUT...
On the minus side:
LM4562 is capable of delivering 23mA, while the old opamp can do 70mA. Also, the old opamp can handle low resistance loads better than the LM4562 (though it does lead to higher distortion).

The NJM4556 is specificly made for directly driving headphones, while the LM4562 is the better "preamp". My conclusion: it's close enough to use as a drop-in replacement, provided you know what you're doing. If you want to plug in your headphone without amplification, it's possible the original opamp is a better choice. 

So this applies to me directly, I run my soundcard to a splitter one goes to my sterio to amp for my speakers when I want to play loud or watch a movie. The other side goes to my headphones for when I want max SQ or have to be quiet. Note that I dont have both plugged in at the same time, I always unplug my headphones when not in use as to not actually have the signal running to two sources at once.

Here is the specs on my headphones.

Audio Technica A700's
Type: Closed Dynamic
Driver Unit: 53mm, CCAW voice coil
Magnet: Neodymium
Frequency response: 5-35,000 Hz
Impedence: 64Ω
Max. Input Power: 500mW
Sensitivity: 102dB

They drive quite nice directly from the sound card wich was a priority of mine when I was buying them since I didnt want to have to buy an amp and also maybe use them with somthing like an Ipod down the road if need be.

50% volume on the creative panel is about perfect for me, so based on what I quoted above, what do I need to expect to happen with my direct soundcard ==> headphone connection after I do the mod?

--reply:--

the soundcard can drive your headphones, but consider getting an amp if you want good sound quality. if you're using 50% volume, then you're losing detail. the amount of detail and dynamics you lose is proportional to the amount of digital volume attenuation. the volume should always be set to 100% and the attenuation should be done in analog.

===============

Originally Posted by ViciousXUSMC 
I can just plug them into my sterio as the amp, however I heard you lose SQ running a pre-amp like that and your best off directly from the sound card.

Mayhaps I can rig an adapter from parts @ radio shack that has a 1/8 in/out with some resistance in the circut so I have proper listening volume at 100%, maybe an aduustable resistor of sorts??

I cant tell a diffrence in SQ from 50% volume to 100% with my sterio and its a professional series type amp, also my speakers are what I would consider quality awell (Klipsh Quintet III) Infact I think I put the volume to 50% for my sterio vs 100% because there was distortion at 100% but its been so long I cant remember.

the output of your sound card has poor dampening compared to an amp. the improvements that come with an amp outweigh the disadvantages. consider that you attenuate the volume 1/8 of the original volume and play 16-bit music. then mathematically you are listening to 12-bit! try an experiment where you set your digital volume to minimum and your amp gain to the max, then listen. you'll notice that there is very little dynamics and it will sound flat and mushy. you might not notice with 50% but you're still losing bits.

if you're going to do that resistor trick you might as well use a volume pot. in any case the sound quality won't be very good with the poor dampening of sound straight out of the sound card.

===============

I could hear noticeable difference in dynamics between 90% and 100% volumes from the soundcard. Music kinda opens up more when it is set to 100%. I use to keep the 90% because old soundcards and cheap computer speakers seem to have distortion if set to full volume, but I have no problems with the latest set.

========
顶端 Posted: 2007-07-22 21:57 | 33 楼
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Re:动手打磨X-Fi任何版本,都可以让低端的

RMAA measurements have been discussed previously. According to it, the mods make no difference. According to it, the CMoy is one of the best amps ever...

Bottom line is that it cannot do what are considered the more important measurements. If you want low ESR, the Blackgates are unbeatable in the realm of electrolytics.

=================

I put a AD8599 in place of the 4562 today with good results (mostly for diagnostic reasons but also curiosity). The resulting sound is very good. Hard to say which is better but since a few have mentioned wondering about it i'd like to report it does work fine and sounds very nice. The reason I wasn't too sure is that on the AD site its rated for a higher voltage range than 5v (9-36v), but googling some more found me a info sheet that did mention 5v as being adequate.. either way yeah it works just fine 

It scored a bit better in RMAA i think then 4562 but ive not been able to do optimal tests on either opamp due to the same RMAA complaining about the signal being either too soft or clipped, which is why i tried the different opamp, but unfortunately that problem still exists even though when i do run RMAA the test results are still fairly good so it doesnt seem to be a serious issue. How is this for others, any problems getting RMAA to give the 'green light' without having to resort to increasing the recording level to >0dB?
Since I started modding this card right away I don't know if its any different with stock parts. I thought it was just me having this problem but since someone else mentioned the exact same, Im curious how RMAA goes for others.

Also I cleaned the mods up a bit and reshorted the coupling caps (the nice way this time ). tomorrow ill do the line-in and surround opamps  Does anyone know if any (and if so, which) capacitors are in the line-in signal path?

And yes the masking tape made it a breeze to put/keep the SOIC in place while soldering the first legs, thanks again for that tip.



reply:
very nice, phalanger. which opamp works better unamped?

reply:

I cant really say, I tend to plug the headphones into a 7.1 amp, but I have had it plugged directly aswell with the 4562, ill try with the 8599 soonish and let you know if it seems clearly better or worse for feeding phones directly. 4562 did so-so on my 595's. I won't try right now yet cause as you mightve spotted i put in a different power cap which might give a bit unreliable basses while it settles in a bit. Atleast its a regular polarized one so Ill give it a try tomorrow orso, no serious settling problems so far like with the red ones

Even though its impossible to be objective about this sort of thing I'll say I'm not unhappy I put in the 8599 despite it not solving the RMAA problem, I would say it sounds atleast as nice as the 4562, anything else I'd say would be highly subjective so I'll keep it short. I like them both a lot, but would tend to choose the 8599 if I had to choose again. It seems the 8599 is a bit more open/transparant and lively, but I cant really flaw the 4562 on those areas either. The transparancy seems especially apparant on high-quality voice-only or single instrument recordings (used Chesky's demonstration cd for first impressions)

Tomorrow another 8599 is going in the line-in position, Im curious if that will give as significant an improvement to the input as replacing the output opamps did for the output.

Awake77: Yeah shorting the caps makes a difference. As coupling caps are redundant in most systems its just unneeded capacitors in the signal path, which degrades the sound. Before I shorted them I had nonpolar blackgates in there which have good audio properties. Still it sounds noticably more opened up without any caps at all. Its very easy to just short them without removing them to see if you like it and if you want take some measurements of the voltage on the outputs. If you plug in your headphones directly into the soundcard you might want to keep the caps, when it connects to an amp there should be no need for them.

===========
Originally Posted by phalanger 
I put a AD8599 in place of the 4562 today with good results (mostly for diagnostic reasons but also curiosity). The resulting sound is very good. Hard to say which is better but since a few have mentioned wondering about it i'd like to report it does work fine and sounds very nice. The reason I wasn't too sure is that on the AD site its rated for a higher voltage range than 5v (9-36v), but googling some more found me a info sheet that did mention 5v as being adequate.. either way yeah it works just fine 

It scored a bit better in RMAA i think then 4562 but ive not been able to do optimal tests on either opamp due to the same RMAA complaining about the signal being either too soft or clipped, which is why i tried the different opamp, but unfortunately that problem still exists even though when i do run RMAA the test results are still fairly good so it doesnt seem to be a serious issue. How is this for others, any problems getting RMAA to give the 'green light' without having to resort to increasing the recording level to >0dB?
Since I started modding this card right away I don't know if its any different with stock parts. I thought it was just me having this problem but since someone else mentioned the exact same, Im curious how RMAA goes for others.

My cousin first installed the lm4562 in his xtrememusic card, so i decided to try out the ad8599 after hearing good things about it, it completely lacked low end and mid bass punch compared to the lm4562. Mid bass punch is a must have for me, didn't have the snap of the lm4562 in my opinion. So i swapped it out for the lm4562 and it sounds great, way better bottom end then the ad8599 imo. Have any of you noticed the same thing with the ad8599? or do you think i might have had a bad ad8599 and i should try out a different one, i have about 4 of them just sitting in a small package.

I also added the 1000uf blackgate cap and shorted the coupling caps, sounds great. my 5.1 logitech x-530's also came in so i should probably change out the other opamps to lm4562's also, or should i do a mix with the ad8599 on the surround opamps? I wonder if the x-530's will sound better than my current altec lansing ATP3's.

thanks for this thread cotdt and everyone else who has contributed, great info and made getting the xtrememusic an easy choice, especially since i only had to pay for the cap thanks to my school email.

reply: thanks phalanger, i actually compared both opamps with a pretty nice set of sennheiser headphones, jut wanted to test the sounds of instruments and so on, wasn't too much worried about soundstage right away. At first i was thinking the ad8599 might be better, thought it sounded cleaner. Then I noticed the lm4562 had more snap to certain things, which made me prefer it over the ad8599. You can definitely notice the punch/snap that the ad8599's lack with certain songs that have some very rapid drum beats. I didn't worry too much about the sound stage, but i have some audio reference cd's since i use to compete in sq comps for car audio, even have a few friends that won world champs iasca this last year in missouri. I am pretty familiar with sound stage scoring and tonality, etc.

The x-530 is just a temp setup since i wanted to try a 5.1 set to just play with, i will be upgrading to a high end 5.1 or even 7.1 setup over the summer. I go all out in my final decisions of what i want, when my car was broken into and my sound system stolen, i got back $7k+, and most of the stuff was brands people haven't heard of, very high end stuff (zapco, horns, pioneer d9, not sure if you are familiar with those). Either way, the mods to the xtrememusic made a huge difference even on my altec lansing 2.1 set, so a difference is a difference, and i notice it so i am happy. I can't wait to get a nice surround sound setup, then i know i will get the best performance out of this sound card.

I definitely know about the wallet hurting, it always hurts and i never give it time to recover. I have one of those mind sets where i don't want to get something and wish i had gotten something slightly better, so i usually try to set it up the best i can the first time around which means spending more money. You should have seen me a few years ago when i was setting up a sound system for my car, went through about 7 different setups before i started my last one that was stolen, i really thought that was going to be the one, but then i switched over to car performance (been out of the audio scene for a while), and then i saw this thread and decided to do this since i built a computer a few months ago, still need a video card and waiting on dx10.
==============
顶端 Posted: 2007-07-22 22:25 | 34 楼
cxz-cj

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Re:Re:

Quote:
引用第16楼furfur于2007-07-22 08:31发表的 Re: :
其中shielding可以提高下面这么多!!

I try tune X-Fi Digital Audio (Sound Blaster X-Fi XtremeMusic)

RESULTS(Optical loop-back)
Noise level, dB (A): -104.8 >>> -147.8
Dynamic range, dB (A): 104.0 >>> 133.1
THD, %: 0.0002 >>> 0.0000
IMD + Noise, %: 0.0027 >>> 0.0003
Stereo crosstalk, dB: -103.3 >>> -145.7
---------------------------------------------------------
这个绝对是胡扯,多半是把RMAA从外录变成内录的结果。
.......

劳驾,看懂了再说阿。
别人本身说的就是(Optical loop-back),又没说模拟外录。
顶端 Posted: 2007-07-23 00:34 | 35 楼
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.

改了电源数字会好是应该的吧。可是数字电路那个干扰,是电容就能搞定的啊?外挂一嘟噜隔离牛好了。。。。可以参考来改zs。可是看见换运放就觉得手法很个人主义。
顶端 Posted: 2007-07-23 08:24 | 36 楼
ter1




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Re:动手打磨X-Fi任何版本,

was looking into ERS paper shielding the interference. and found something interesting

a Soundcard shield, from taiwan  so i think it definitely have effect to some extent.





=============
顶端 Posted: 2007-07-23 22:27 | 37 楼
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Re:动手打磨X-Fi任何版本,都可以让低

My 4562's for the back channel came in, all opamps replaced now:

1xAD8599 for line-in
1xAD8599 for L+R out
2xLM4562 for L+R rear
1xAD8066 for subwoofer (I use 5.1 not 7.1 so its irrelevant that the side channels are on different opamps)



It may seem a bit random matchup but its not  the AD8599 for the line-in and main outs due to their exceptional detail and transparancy, the 4562's in the back because i can swap between 8599 and 4562's by a simple cable switch, and 8066 for sub cause I read good things abouts its deep bass response. The system is used in 2.1 most of the time, for music, and 5.1 mode for movies and sometimes for music (rare).

I'm still undecided what to do with the other coupling capacitors, either remove or replace. Putting all nonpolar blackgates there would get fairly expensive especially if shorting them would work even better. However I did have some problems with the main line-out which I don't think are caused by shorting the caps but i'm not entirely sure either..
I asked before but not much response: is everyone able to get a green light from RMAA right away without hassle, or are there more people besides me and one or two who mentioned it, that had trouble getting a clean signal on peak output levels, such as RMAA requires. Especially from people who shorted the coupling caps I'd like to hear this.


=================

After some pondering I recapped the surround coupling minus the subwoofer. The bigger size of the blackates becomes more of a problem as you replace more of them. To prevent having to use long bended legs on the caps I put the other 4 on the backside of the card (each lm4562 opamp having 2 caps on front and 2 on the back).

顶端 Posted: 2007-07-23 22:39 | 38 楼
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Re:动手打磨X-Fi任何版本,都可以让低端

I just wanted to drop a line on the very, very pleasing results I have gotten from the AD8599 at line-in position. I feed turntable and tube-preamped guitars and microphones into it and the results by far surpass what I could get out of it before I replaced the line-in opamp. Very highly recommended for those plugging in any analog audio sources. Even though I expected an improvement I did not expect it to sound this good, especially since I did not replace any capacitors around it (still not sure which does what).

I have not tried the LM4562 or any other opamp in this position besides the one that it came with and the AD5899. So those may or may not yield similarly good results.

======================

I just got my X-Mod back after sending it out to Soloz to mod. Here are my impressions after half an hour. X-Mod -> META42 -> HD600 is the chain.

First off, there definitely is a difference. The track at the top of my playlist was "Thou Shalt Kill," and my very first impression was "is there something wrong with my card?" There was a ton of background noise coming through the headphones, noise that certainly wasn't so imposing before the mod or with the onboard sound I've been listening to.

Not the card's fault though. Next track I put up was "My Name is Mud" since there is so much silence in the song. No noise where there wasn't supposed to be. So the X-Mod certainly is more revealing.

Now, the soundstage. It's been a month since I've heard my X-Fi, but I am fairly confident in saying that the soundstange has been narrowed. From my original X-Fi to onboard sound I noticed almost no change, but there does seem to be a constriction going from onboard sound to the X-Mod.

Now, the sound itself. First, the low bar. The X-Mod seems better then Onboard Sound (ASUS A8N-SLI Priemium, nForce 4 SLI) in almost every way. I don't really feel a need to qualify that further  Compared to the original X-Fi though? Well, it's been a month, and I am very very hesitant to make comparisons considering the time that has elapsed. I do feel however that there is a bit more detail now. There are details in the guitars of "Rusty Cage" that I do not remember, however I would not say that there is necessarily more transparency. Even though I feel I can hear more details, the separation between instruments on pretty much every track I have played, at best, is the same as before. My gut feeling is that it is in fact somewhat worse. I feel that the soundstage has been changed to emphasize the mids and base more, which could explain this; or that there is much more detail in the X-Mod in these regions and thus they are more prominent, which generally works against transparency. Possibly both. Again almost impossible to say, it's been too long.

So, there is my first half-hour review. Maybe something more in depth after I play around with EQ and explore some more music outside of Rock with them. I will however say that with the altered soundstage my gut feeling is that the X-Mod will pair much better with my Grado's, and I can't wait to try them. I just wanted to give a good listen in my Senns first since they are my primary computer headphones.

Now, is it worth it? If you are doing it yourself, I would say yes. If you are buying a new sound card, I would again say yes. Paying to have it done for you? Jury is still out, but a hesitant yes. Will post more after I give them a better listen

===============

Originally Posted by PPkiller 
yes i did.. previously i was useing cap bypass... but recently i removed the bypass and changed the 4 caps to blackgate nx high q... maybe it is due to lack of burn in(still under 20hrs as i dun have time to keep it running)... i missed the sound bypass gave me.. clearer.. micro details are damn good..

ad8599 do sound better then lm4562(at least when unamp)

i am also using bg nx hiq caps,it will sound a bit muddy and less detailed in begining,but after 200hrs of burning-in you will hear the sound with more body,better detailed instruments separation,resolution and more bass in lower frequencies .

=================

alright, finally finished this mod tonight. changed out the input and headphone opamp for lm4562. wow! i really like how much more engaging the soundfield is. haven't had a chance to fully evaluate yet but the bass is much cleaner and more defined and the midrange has greater seperation and a real sense of detail. screwed up the first card learning to do this. but i think it was worth it. i learned a bit about soldering and electronics. and now i have a freakin awesome sounding soundcard. thanks codt and all who have participated in this thread!

================

Originally Posted by ROBSCIX 
You think the output of this circuit would give better sound then a output section on a card using opamps such as LM4562's?

Yes I'm sure it would sound better because I've tried it with various external DACs (but never with any sound cards), but it would be considered a more advanced mod. Thanks for bringing up this idea, I should try it with my sound cards.

==============

Originally Posted by germanium 
They are not in parallel. It is a balanced input circuit that have both a plus & minus input to cancel distortion & increase output for a given input voltage/current. There is a coupling capacitor in both input circuits thus it requires 2 per channel. These can be bypassed but if you do both legs of the input must be bypassed or you will have massive D.C. offset at the output. With both legs of the input bypassed the D.C. offset cancels out.

ah that makes sense. i stand corrected.

==========
顶端 Posted: 2007-07-24 18:57 | 39 楼
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